ON FISH, BIG AND LITTLE or WHO WILL ROLL THIS MASSIVE STONE?

NOAH: Someone was telling me how the Gospel of Mark, according to Mark, St. Mark the Evangelist, was originally transmitted by itinerant storytellers.

RICH: Right. Oratory. Because the population of the time, in that part of the world at least, would have been illiterate.

NOAH: Yeah. And it made me think of the modern comedian.

RICH: How so?

NOAH: Well, I learned that Mark, the Gospel of, is the shortest and earliest of the Gospels and that its telling takes about an hour or two. So, like a stand-up special is about that long and the craft is really the closest surviving thing of this sort. Or, certainly in our culture.

RICH: Okay. Interesting.

NOAH: And how it kind of rubs you wrong to rub you right, if you know what I mean. "It" being both comedy and Biblical offerings.

RICH: In both instances they're trying to impart a message, get you to see something.

NOAH: Yeah. That’s the “rub you right.” But it also often does so in a way that doesn’t really sit well with people. Certainly not modern audiences.

RICH: How so?

NOAH: In Mark’s characterization, Jesus refers to himself not as the "Son of God" but as the "Son of Man." So already if you come at this from a modern context the thing kinda seems like it’s on its head.

RICH: Okay. Sure.

NOAH: And he, He, also cautions his followers to tell no one of his existence.

RICH: Right. And, as you say, how is that to be interpreted today?

NOAH: Or, at least, how does the modern penitent proselytizer square that?

RICH: Sure. Like, as a Christian you're going to flatly reject this request of his, His, followers from His own mouth?

NOAH: Right. Bold. Oh, and it also has this fabulous ending.

RICH: I don’t know it off the top of my head.

NOAH: Well, it doesn’t end how a modern storyteller would resolve things. It has none of the horrible literary polish that makes everything today feel predictable and sterile.

RICH: Okay.

NOAH: It doesn’t end with the crucifixion or the burial. And it doesn’t end with the resurrection or the disciples learning of the miracle or with a glorious ascension to heaven or something. Instead, at least in the earliest tellings, you get something like: just after sunrise, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James head out to visit Jesus’ tomb, bringing with them spices with which to anoint Jesus’ body; on they way they wonder aloud, “But who will roll the massive stone for us from the entrance of the tomb?”; upon arrival at the tomb they see that the stone is displaced and within the tomb is not Jesus but an angel in white robes; the angel tells the women not to be alarmed and that Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified, has since risen from the dead; the angel tells them they must go and tell everyone what has taken place…

RICH: That all sounds familiar.

NOAH: Well, and here’s the good part, the Gospel arrives at its tremendous conclusion: Trembling and bewildered, the women flee from the tomb. Terrified, they say nothing to anyone. Aaaand scene. Cut. Fin. That’s how it ends. That’s how the life and work of Jesus, according to Mark, sums up.

RICH: Right. I see what you mean. Why would it end there and in that way? If we’re getting into the Bible, to me this is like the story of Jonah and Ninevites, which is even more unlike modern stories. Even just there, the story is typically referred to as “Jonah and the whale” for reasons I do not understand. Most translations of early texts go with “big fish”, “great fish”, “sea creature” or “sea monster” but nowhere is there an early text offering “whale”... And, in fact, just as with the title, the story is so unlike the storytelling we prefer that it is commonly framed as an entirely different story.

NOAH: Go on.

RICH: So, the Assyrian Empire, Israel's bitter enemy, is full of injustice and downright evil—

NOAH: They had a better soccer team.

RICH: Something like that. And, as is often the case, God is unhappy with the situation and so he tells Jonah that he is to go and preach in the Assyrian capital, Nineveh, against all evil and injustice there. But—

NOAH: Yup, that sounds pretty Biblical.

RICH: But, in response, instead of immediately travelling east to the city as he should, Jonah does the opposite. But he doesn’t just go directly west, away from Nineveh, but he runs west and then when he runs out of land he actually hops on a ship heading as far west as he can possibly go. And, again, this bit is misrepresented commonly as Jonah being scared and fleeing the scene, which, as we learn later, because he tells us, is not his motivation.

NOAH: Wait, so he says what his motivation is, but folks don’t tell it that way?

RICH: That’s right. Queer, right?

NOAH: Unless it’s open to interpretation.

RICH: It’s not. It really isn’t. You’ll see.

NOAH: ‘kay

RICH: So, angry with Jonah, God conjures a storm, nearly wrecking the ship he’s on. The sailors then toss Jonah overboard, at Jonah’s recommendation, for being the consensus cause of the storm. But God won’t let Jonah drown. Instead God sends a “giant fish” to swallow up Jonah, who spends three days and nights in the belly of the fish before being projectile vomited back onto dry land, after Jonah finally thanks God for not leaving him to drown and promising obedience going forward.

NOAH: I wonder why people have this idea you can bargain with the creator of the universe?

RICH: Indeed. So, God then tells Jonah once again to go to Nineveh and deliver a sermon to the Ninevites.

NOAH: Sure, like, “Are we cool or what? Let’s see if you can actually manage this.”

RICH: Yeah. But, weirdly, doing so, Jonah delivers no sermon. He never brings up God, which is weird. And he doesn’t mention the population’s wrongdoing and as such never offers the Ninevites a way to rectify the situation.

NOAH: Right. Nothing you’d expect if Jonah’s intent was to allow the people of Nineveh to right themselves in God’s eyes.

RICH: Yeah. Instead, Jonah just says “Forty more days and Nineveh shall be overturned!” That’s literally all he says. Like, “You’re screwed.”

NOAH: Maybe “You’re screwed and I’m here to watch it all go down.”

RICH: Something like that. But, weirder still, the Ninevites (and all their cows, it should be noted) immediately and fully repent for their sins.

NOAH: Not their goats or dogs.

RICH: Goats and dogs are jerks: jumping on stuff, peeing on the whole of the built world.

NOAH: Well, and, again, curiously, that’s where the story ends in many tellings. That is not the end. Not at all. Seeing his enemies acknowledge the error of their ways makes Jonah furious. Furious. He’s so furious he tells God that this was exactly why he ran away originally, because he knew God would get this sort of result and be merciful and forgive the population of Nineveh.

RICH: And Jonah tells God he would rather die than live with a stupid God who would forgive his stupid enemies. He demands to be struck down by God. But God, as ever in Jonah's case, refuses. And so Jonah storms off to sit on a hill outside of town—

NOAH: Jonah’s a cranky four-year-old in need of a snack or a nap.

RICH: Something like that. Yeah. And then God gifts Jonah a vine to provide him with shade, which makes Jonah happy—

NOAH: It’s the simple things.

RICH: Well, but then God sends a little worm to kill the plant.

NOAH: Which enrages Jonah, doubtless.

RICH: Indeed. This makes Jonah mad again. And the story ends with God asking Jonah if he is justified in his anger. And Jonah tells God that he is justified and that he should just be left to die. And the book ends with God asking Jonah for permission to show mercy to his enemies (and their cows.) It’s an awfully strange story.

NOAH: Well, yes. But what’s really strange is that we pretend it’s about something else. Even— Here, let’s look it up.

RICH: Sure.

NOAH: Look, “Jonah and the big fish.” Look at that. Not only is Google's AI summary not the contents of the story but there are mostly links for a story called “Jonah and the whale.”

RICH: I get the big fish to whale transmutation. I get how they arrive there even if it’s wrong. But how is the summary off?

NOAH: I don't. Either words have meaning or they don't, in which case you shouldn't use words. But it says this is a Bible story about a Hebrew prophet who disobeys God and is swallowed by a large fish, or whale, as punishment. That’s not what happens. God brings a storm seemingly to stop and coax repentance out of Jonah. And Jonah effectively attempts suicide by drowning. The fish is not sent as punishment but to keep Jonah from dying and perhaps coerce the prophet.

RICH: The summary also says that the story teaches people they should ask for forgiveness after disobeying God, and that God will give them a second chance. That is not what happens. Jonah sees God’s goodness and compassion and hates what he sees. He tries to escape but cannot, no matter what he does. When prevented from dying, his wish, God traps him and holds him, under the sea in the belly of a fish, a kind of undead purgatory, until Jonah eventually gives in. Even then there is no second chance, only coercion. And Jonah, upon being forced to go to the city, simply does not do what God asks one more time.

NOAH: Right.

RICH: And look at this. The last line of summary reads: “Jonah completes his mission: Jonah preaches to the people of Nineveh and warns them that the city will be destroyed in 40 days if they do not repent. The people believe Jonah and turn away from their wickedness.” Literally none of that happens and that is not where the story ends. The electronic ignorance peddler misses that the Ninevites and their cows repent and that this only infuriates Jonah, who runs away once more and asks for death again. And it also leaves out that God taunts and plays with Jonah, as if Jonah is a pet lizard and God a cruel child.

NOAH: Demonstrating his power over him.

RICH: Yeah.

NOAH: But isn't that the whole jam?

RICH: What do you mean?

NOAH: It's hard to read the fullness of the text and come away with something other than, or you'd have to work really hard, skipping bits and importing others, to get to something other than God has fashioned you broken—

RIGH: Yeah. Fundamentally flawed in essential ways. And intentionally so.

NOAH: Fashioned you broken AND commands you to be whole.

RICH: You're a mosquito. He plucks off your wings and then tells you that you must fly.

NOAH: Must fly or he will sear your flesh with a magnifying glass, slowly and surely and forever and ever.

RICH: Sure. But the whole "He died for your sins" bit is pretty essential.

NOAH: Scapegoating is essential. I suppose that's true.

RICH: Yeah. Or perhaps that scapegoating was deeply, profoundly effective in just one irreproducible instance.

NOAH: Well, was it effective?

RICH: What do you mean?

NOAH: Or, like, have you ever been to the Vatican?

RICH: No.

NOAH: Or seen inside?

RICH: Not really.

NOAH: It's really just a museum to human suffering.

RICH: What do you mean?

NOAH: Not even human suffering; like, the damn horses are in pain.

RICH: Okay.

NOAH: It's, like, ten centuries of agony and suffering so distilled and concentrated in place that it forms a solid, marble, but then that, its essence, has then been skillfully crafted, captured and transmitted across time as excruciating pain on a thousand faces.

RICH: And you just walk through that.

NOAH: Yeah. But it's like the size of a football stadium and you could experience nothing else for eight hours.

RICH: Okay. Wow.

NOAH: And then it's not lost on anyone that there are a thousand of the most beautiful and strapping Italian boys attending all of this in flamboyant leotards with feathery, red rooster combs ejaculating from their heads.

RICH: Okay.

NOAH: Strapping lads in striped leotards at the beck and call of a hundred old men in long white robes.

RICH: That's a lot.

NOAH: It's a lot. And you just want someone to recall for you the ending of the Gospel of Mark or the story of Jonah.

RICH: And how all this jives with the teachings of Jesus.

NOAH: And how with an institution like the Catholic Church and a figure like the Pope you get an AI reading of the Bible that delivers the opposite, or at least something exactly wrong, to what's spelled out right there in the most published and read and heard story or set of stories ever.

RICH: And how this all jives with the teachings of Jesus.

NOAH: And, or, just makes sense to anyone. Like, how?